Fearful Filly

[pporter]

This is the same 4 mo. old filly I posted about the ulcers.

She has a significantly increased sense of flight (HUGE understatement). Can I assume she is a Water horse, or do babies grow out of this?

Yesterday I was scratching her neck, and as I moved my arm my coat crinkled just a little bit - she bolted head first into the fence. A tentanus shot, and 2 staples later she is all patched up.

She will bolt if I look at her cross-eyed - and I am NOT exaggerating! I have been handling her for 2 months now, several times a day for a few minutes each time. She has improved, but she will still bolt at any noise that happens while I am with her, or any movement I make that I have not made before, or any movement that is even a teeny bit faster than she is used to. No one else but me can approach her at this point. When she bolts, it is usually right into a wall or fence - and she will continue to panic and bolt again and again and again into the fence.

Any help here? Nutritional? From a 5-element personality standpoint? Something I am missing?

She's a little big to stuff back inside the mare and return her at this point

Patti

PS - before I receive the obvious posts back - this is not my first rodeo. I've been breeding horses for 15 years, raising them, starting them under saddle, etc. This one is just stinking crazy

[mward]

Patti,
This seems a bit over the top for a water horse. I wonder if this filly is the Fire/Wood cross. These horses do not improve with normal desensitization techniques but need a job of some kind to get them focused. I would suggest not doing much with this filly unless you have her haltered and keep her focused with a groundwork session that is fairly strenuous. You can eventually put some scary obstacles such as flags or tarps but stay focused on the groundwork not the obstacle.

Tying this filly up to an overhead tree for a gradually increasing times where she can view activities around the barn will help her learn some self control. Madalyn

[pporter]

I've been working with her more - at liberty. I noticed that she only bolts when I am positioned behind her withers. I have been teaching her to turn and face me when she gets worried (instead of bolt) and she is starting to understand. Otherwise I let her bolt, and she does come right back to me. I now have a new theory. I think I have a water horse, but one with a very sore back. Would that make sense? She has finally let me start doing some body work on her and her back is very, very tight. But as I work she will suddenly take a deep breath and then lick and chew.

Patti

[mward]

Patti,
Stomach ulcers will cause mid back soreness and can make a horse very spooky. Focusing on healing her digestive system will probably go a long way to helping her reactiveness. You could try Digestive Product aloe vera and Digestive Product slippery elm but I find with severe cases, especially in emotional horses, the Digestive Product KLPP and Digestive Product ulcer formula works faster. Madalyn

[jmorris]

Hi Patti - boy I can relate to this! I have a mare, born on my farm, that has the ability to mentally "check out." She has checked out 3 times in her first 3 years. The last 2 episodes were within 3 months of each other. She is now 5 and it has been 2 years since the last accident and she has not "checked out" (knocks on wood!). I have done SOOOOO much for this girl. After the last accident, she spent 5 months with her trainer. What was supposed to be a few weeks ended up being 5 months. Madalyn is right - no amount of densitization really works. It can help, but when this type panics, the brain just shuts off. What I have found is that when frightened she needs somewhere to "go." Somewhere to move to. The trick is getting her to move safely! This mare is a Fire/Wood combo. However - she does fit some Water descriptions. Overall I would actually classify her as being quite bold. That is what can be so surprising. She is bold but yet when truly frightened - she can be downright scary. Here is what happened: (pasted from another BB I participate on):

And so my saga continues...............

I know many of you have followed my story on my filly (3 1/2 year old Oldenburg Pinto) that got hurt Memorial Day weekend. She got spooked in the pasture, ran her mother over and ended up with Sweeney Shoulder - severe nerve damage to the suprascapular nerve. She did atrophy in the entire shoulder and she basically looked totally dislocated as her elbow stuck out profusely and she dragged the leg. Well, she had been healing up quite well. The elbow is just about back to a normal position and she is very strong on the leg. She was doing well enough to go back to pasture during the day to be with the rest of the herd.

She had gained enough nerve function to begin slowly trying to bring back the muscle so I had her trainer come out last Thursday. We started by introducing her to ground poles. He just walked her over them (or attempted to since she thought they were a tad "scary.") She did fine and he continued about 12 times or so.

He then took her back to the area in front of my barn and continued to work her in hand, reviewing the work they had done over the Spring. Things were going well. He applied some pressure to the poll in an exercise to get her to release from the pressure, well rather than release and dis-engage the hindquarters, she flung her head up and pulled back. Needless to say, with a hot sweaty day, the lead rope slipped through his hands and off she went. She went into total panic mode - just "checked out" "glazed over." She ran around my front paddock where my barn is and hauled butt through the open back door of her stall. She didn't even slow down. She plowed right through the front wall of her stall taking out 4 2x6's. When she hit the aisle, she tried to jump the stall wall across from hers. She took out 2 more 2x6's and fell in the stall. As if that wasn't enough, she got up, ran out and towards my back pasture where the other horses were. I had closed the gate when she got loose but that did not stop her. She ran full speed toward the wire mesh fence with board on top and crashed over it and sheered most everything off her left front leg. Trainer told me NOT to go back into the pasture. There was nothing we could do until she decided to stop. Well she ran for 10 mintues solid with lead rope flapping away at her. She was totally terrified. He was back there, but I could not watch. When he saw her come out of the woods, he saw the damage to her leg and yelled for me to call the vet.

He caught her up when she finally stopped and she had severly injured the leg. Nothing broken, but it was shredded. She severed a vein and blood was everywhere. There was an 8 inch long flap of skin just hanging. I was just freaking out!

Vet came and the filly's adrenalin was so high that 2 doses of dermosadan didn't even touch her. We had to lay her down to try and stitch the leg. The vet got 3/4 of the way through and she started to come out of the anesthesia. She got another dose to keep her down. The vet has just finished up the leg when she came out of it again. The vet did not have time to get the leg wrapped.

The filly came out badly from the anesthesia. She fell down repeatedly. On the second time down, she tore open the entire leg again. All we could do was get her stabilized, wrap the leg and ship her to the hospital 2 1/2 hours away.

I am crushed. I do not know what to do at this point with her. This is the third time she has panicked and has freaked out - left her body so to say. After she re-tore the leg open, I debated for 20 minutes if I should just go ahead and put her down. I just couldn't bring myself to do it. It was not a life threatening injury. So off she went to the hospital. Her trainer came with us and he stayed for almost all the "sewing" up. Tonight is her 4th night in the hospital and I am not sure when they will release her. Her trainer has offered to take her for a few weeks when she gets released from the hospital to help with the aftercare as he is only 15 minutes from the hospital.

It is unbelievable that she did not break anything nor is she lame! She broke those 2 x 6's in half! All 6 of them. Just plowed right through them. She fell twice! She also did not re-injure the Sweeney Shoulder - that is also amazing.

I am still in total shock and this happened Thursday. My barn looked like a tornado went through it. Wood and blood everywhere. I do not know what to do with her. Honestly, there is a part of me that doesn't want her to come back home. I do not think I can risk my safety or that of the other horses. The next time, she could run over a person or horse and kill them. BUT she is my baby - born on my farm. I have to do right by her - I am just not sure what "right" is. She is not mental. I know of other horses like this. Normal until they panic.

The sad part is - she is the sweetest thing She is a joy to handle. She was backed in February and had been doing great before she injured the shoulder. She tried hard for her trainer and was just a love. He sacked her out more than any other horse he had trained. 99.9% of the time she is just awesome BUT when she panics - she just loses it.

I am so sad................and confused as to what to do. Knowing her history, who would want her? She needs to be in the hands of a professional. I have spent over $5,000 in vet bills on her since she was born. She is very talented and beautiful. She was my upper level hopeful. I can't even justify saving her to breed because you DO NOT BREED THIS! Her dam is not like this at all. She is a tad flighty, but nothing like the filly. This little girl has zero self-preservation skills.

I just cannot believe it has happened again.

Thanks for the shoulder
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Once she got home from the trainers, I sent her sample into Patsy at Healthy Bodies. She was a MESS! Here is what was found: (pasted from the hair analysis thread)

Mattie - the problem child - got her results back a week ago Monday. Boy, she is a total mess Her herbs came this past Monday. Here is what was found with Mattie. Her herbs for each are in ( ) :

Vit. C - low, vit. C calms the adrenals. Hers were "unregulated" causes a spike in adrenalin and in cortisol. (Vit. C)

Essential Fatty Acids were low (flax - I had to increase the amount I was giving to 6 oz.)

Digestive enzymes - low (digestive enzymes)

Probiotic - low (Probios)

Ph was very acidic (Probios and the dig. enzymes)

She also has arsenic build up (like Mingo) that was aquired at birth and also she got some from when she was at the trainers. (garlic flakes)

She has insecticides (multi gland supp)

She has mouth and stomach ulcers that have been there about 20 months. (comfrey powder)

Liver toxins and weakness in liver tissues. This can result in dominace/anger, increased fight or flight and irritability (Liver cleanse)

High Anxiety (anxiety relief)

Kidneys are weak. In Traditional Chinese Medicine the kidney represents fear. (multi gland)

Progesterone - low (chasteberry)

Seratonin - low (gota kola powder)

Structurally she is a mess - after all she has been through - I am not surprised at that. Patsy found some damage to her tendons, ligaments in her left leg, She will go on Grapeseed pwoder for this as well for her nervous system and for the scar tissue on the left leg. She has TMJ - common with arsenic build up, her poll, atlas, axis, sternum, her lower lumbar, sacral and coccygeal vertebra are messed up. She was seen by the chiro for the first time since coming home after I sent in her hair sample, but Patsy tells me that with arsenic build up - adjustments have a hard time staying "put." Mattie and Mingo are due to be chiropracted again on Monday.
___________________________________________________________________________________

After she finished up with the "Patsy Program," I looked into the nervine herbs and I muscle tested her on all 4 of them and found her most positive to blue vervain - which is the description she also fit. Here is a link to read about the nervines: http://www.herbal-horsekeeping.com/arti ... horse.html. She went on a 3 month course of blue vervain with passion flower. I think this helped immensly. I usually put her back on the blue vervain about a month before Jan. 1 (fireworks) and again near July 4.

Lastly - I recently became certified in Integrated Energy Therapy. When I got my animal certification, Mattie was my "demo" horse. She had not received this therapy before. It is an energy therapy based on emotions. It was very enlightening to work on her. I found dis-trust, anger/resentment, stress/powerless and fear. The instructor and I both had to work on her to get her to release this stuff as some isssues she was not very willing to let go of.

Overall - between all these different therapies I have done combined with her aging (she is now 5), I feel she has a chance at a decent life. I have not, in the past 2 years, seen ANY indication that a "check out" is coming. She can still be a bit flighty, but NOTHING like what she has displayed in the past. It is almost as if SHE has learned how to cope but I think the herb program and the energy therapy were the modalities which allowed her to begin to change.

I truly hope you can get this filly past this. I also hope you do not have to go through what I have gone through in getting to the "other" side of this. We have made it but it was a very ugly road we had to follow.

Jill

[mward]

Jill,
Thanks for reminding us about your mare. I do think the Shao Yang, Fire/Wood can look like a Water but the boldness gives the clue that it they are not Water. Also, Water horses will flee and they can be dangerous they are not quite as unpredictable and explosive as the out of balance Shao Yang can be. The Water horse will tend to be flighty all the time until they build self esteem and confidence, then they are often very good.
Herbs can help both type horses rebalance. I like the Relax Blend which contains passion flower and you can get this same formula without valerian and it contains the blue vervain. Madalyn

[pporter]

Thanks for all of the information. My filly is jumpy about noises, and normal kinds of things foals are scared of. But she is terrified of people. I can approach her head, and scratch her as far as my arm can reach, but she will bolt if I move anywhere except for right in front of her. She spent the first two months in a large herd, pretty much "in the wild", then the owner of the mare I leased brought her and her dam into a stall, tackled the filly and haltered her. Five days later she moved to my place, where they stayed in a stall with attached corral at night, and in a pasture during the daytime. I have handled her daily, just basically trying to get her to become curious of me, basic halter training and rubbing her with my hands all over.

What I have noticed is that no matter what psychology or training technique I use, it is always successful at first - then she starts to become suspicious of it after awhile. Kind of like she starts to let go and trust, then something tells her she had better not. Each time she decides to no longer trust, she gets worse about the bolting. I have found I started tip-toeing around her because if I acted normally she would bolt into the fence and hurt herself. I think she is very smart, I think she distrusts motives of people, I think she is manipulative, I think she really IS scared, and I think she has no coping skills when something upsets her.

Two days ago I tried something new. I moved her to a remote stall and paddock area (remote from other people), put her on an all hay diet (she was getting some grain and alfalfa), and removed my anxious, whining dog. I let her chill overnight in this new environment, then started hand feeding her hay 5 times a day. I walked in circles, and each time she approached, gave her some hay. Today I started moving around more, reaching out and touching her, changing my position relative to her and always offering hay each time she accepted what I was doing for a couple of seconds. When I leave her, I leave just enough hay to get her to the next "hand-feeding". At night, I leave her enough hay for the night.

So far, so good. She has bolted a number of times, but this time she is coming back to me after each time. And, none of the bolts have been into a fence. And I am also noticing that when she thinks about bolting, she is often changing her mind and turning to face me to get more hay. She even lets me reprimand her gently if she gets pushy about the hay without taking offense. Much like she would if her mother were to have reprimanded her.

I'll look into the KLPP and Ulcer Formula - how much should she be getting of each? I know I looked into it once for my gelding DJ, but it cost $800 to get him started and I could not afford that.

Patti

[mward]

Patti,
Sounds like you are making some progress. You can always use lower doses of the KLPP and UF. If is better to start with the more expensive loading dose program but go lower if you can't afford if and the ulcers will still heal even if it takes a bit longer. Madalyn